Reading Response: Freire and Gatto on the Public Education System.

While reading the Freire and Gatto, I enjoyed and agreed with the most of their discussion about the Public education system in America. In their article they criticized the public education system which is trying to make every individual a good citizen, but at the same time dull students. Somehow, If I think about the present system, It is true to some extent that our school’s are designed to teach the education as mandatory for every individual, but there real purpose is to make them servants for the society. Our teachers teach us the education which is already organized by the scholars and students are spouse to fill up all of that information which he considers as a true knowledge for them. Somehow, they are making students as a product, but not intelligent. The students should be taught beyond to the pre-designed education, they should not only given lectures, but also communicate with them, this could help them to establish good understanding and enhance their social skills because most of the individuals lack the social skills which are really important in their practical life. However, there should be a close relationship between a students and the teacher, by which they feel free to talk each other, so that the students can think creative and feel the independence. Meanwhile reading the Freire and Gatto, I came to the conclusion that education is the most important thing for every individual. They should not be made as a dull student, who goes to school, finish up with his studies and run for the job, but don’t know his aim in the life.

Gatto Against School Response

I did not agree with Gatto’s idea against school. Of course we all think that our education system is holding us back from our intellectual potential. But we have to go to school becausewe have to learn to adapt to our society. Courses in high school may seem pointless but their purpose is to help your mind grow so that when you come upon later courses such as medicine or business you’ll be mentally prepared for them.

Gatto enforces his argument with people who lived over a hundred years ago. It was a different time back then. Only a few were to have a school education. It was an entirely different culture. Today if we were to not go to school most of us would even have the discipline to contribute enough back to society. How will doctors know the necessary information to perform medicine? Or how would entrepreneurs start successful companies if they didn’t know the necessary actions to run a business. Without education society would go down. It’s hard to believe but I think that it is the simple truth.

Garret K.

Gatto response.

As a student, I agree with Gatto. Young adults shouldn’t push themselves so hard to reach social acceptance in terms of education. I don’t like the rigorous schedule we are forced to undergo from the time we enter primary school to the day of our graduation. Why must a simple letter determine our worth? If I get an A in chemistry, for example, I’m determined to be intelligent… but what if I simply memorized the text? That means I’m capable of jumping through the hoops placed in front of me, not that I proved I can actually succeed, or that I challenged myself. Critical thinking and intelligence comes from learning how to apply the information I have absorbed, not just displaying the capacity to satisfy the instructor's commands and instruction.

It really disturbed me when Gatto mentioned his job loss. For someone held in such high-esteem to be replaced so easily, it really shocked me to know that it could happen to anyone, because the corporate mindset doesn’t focus on us individually. Gatto was completely right. I feel like my talent and unique personality is hidden away in the pursuit for the good grade. I loved this article, it made me realize I can still achieve my dreams regardless of how I am judged by society’s standards.

Clara G.

Gatto-Against School

Should we be going to school or being forced to go to school all these days; its usually " six classes a day, five days a week, nine months a year, for twelve years?" Is this really necessary for one to get a good education nowadays and become someone successful and have a whats considered a good life?...I think that to become an educated person you don't have to end up going to school for years and years to come. This country has brought us up thinking that for one to gain "success", we've got to go K-12 and then continue onto a college or university for us to become someone who will be appreciated and recognized by the community. Many examples of famous people come to mind to me: Lil Wayne, Benjamin Franklin, Abe Lincoln and many others who didn't go to school but still came out with an education and made something really great from their lives. I'm not stating that we should all dropout and find our own way of getting knowledge but if schools not for us and we can still move forward and gain a career that will provide for one's self our or family and give us a life that we'll enjoy. :D

Gatto RR

Reflecting upon the readings we have discussed thus far, Gatto’s article where he talks about his opinion in which he believes our education system is crippling our kids, was a stance that I agree with for the most part. His opinion of encouraging the best qualities out of our students youthfulness, such as helping them use their natural qualities of curiosity, intrigue and their sense of adventure and adapt into our schooling system contrary to what is in place now . His suggestion of offering more flexibility and being able find the natural path of insight for each individual student wouldn’t just help our students become more fully rounded adults but also help them become more integrated in our society with the education they received.

I was really struck by his opposition of Ingles’ 6 functions, especially the selective function in which it discusses how the school systems application to “the favored races.” Where students are sorted into certain branches creating an inferiority, which then translated into the jobs they have options for, and is a fundamental force in what drives our economy. Instead of using alternative methods in helping the students who are tagged unfit find their niche, in learning things that are crucial to their respective personalities and ideas. But instead these students become neglected and tainted with poor grades, that doesn’t help advance who they are as people but instead giving them a leftover role of our socio-economic structure which only benefits those that weren’t subjected from the very beginning of their education as well as other external factors.

Personally, I agree with a lot of Gatto’s points because it highlights the main issues with our education system. When I was in Middle school, most teachers taught class in a traditional textbook format, but in one class, all of the assignments where open ended and designed to create an environment where critical thought and reflective discussion where more important and overshadowed the sorting functions of grades and tests. As I look back on my time in that class I see that I learned a lot more valuable information not only about the material but as well as myself , opposed to the more the traditionally taught classes that where much more frequent in my k-12 public school life.

Chris L.

"Against School" Reading Response

I love to read. I always have. I read boring things and interesting things, things I remember and mostly things I forget. Lately, I read a lot of critical things- about the government and its leaders. I’ve learned to scan over those oh-so-prevalent expressions of opinion and form my own hypothesis based on what I already know and see. But somehow Gatto’s article “Against School” struck me differently than the rants on the back page of the weekly alternative newspaper. I found myself so excited by the points he was making, so surprised to find that someone, somewhere, had put into words what I had somehow suspected to be true all along, that I nearly emailed the article to my family and friends. I still might.

That sounds geeky, I know, but it has to do with how I was raised. Due to my health, I was unable to attend public school until grade eight, at which time I myself begged my parents to let me enroll. Up until that point, my brother and I were “homeschooled” or at least that’s what we learned to call it. We rarely did anything at all which resembled the arbitrary notion of school most our peers and their parents referred to. We played outside, we read random passages out of encyclopedias for fun, we watched OPB and we cooked with our mom. We were read to at night and slept in as late as we wanted in the morning. It was hardly an ideal environment for fostering intelligence. And to be sure, when I finally entered Junior High at thirteen with no notion whatsoever of how to factor equations, I felt stupid. But I also had experiences much more valuable than the kids around me. I wasn’t used to holding my teachers in near religious reverence, so we related on a more human level. I had never before been punished for getting up to relieve myself without permission and it seemed dehumanizing. And finally, the phenomenon of being “too smart” or “over achieving” would have seemed nearly comical had it not come with so much stigma.

Gatto’s article addressed all these areas and many more. From briefly looking over some of the other responses to this essay, I can tell it was not generally well received. But that seems to prove exactly Gatto’s point. Most children who are taken through a compulsory schooling and spit out, after 12 years, at a point where they can finally choose what they learn and how they learn it, are wholly unprepared to think of their education as anything but obligatory. Having worked very hard myself to get back into school, but not having a classical history in the school system, I can see how “critical thinking”- the type of processes encouraged in higher education but rarely in a mandatory schooling, is key to becoming an educated and well rounded person. But it can only be achieved after the method of thought we have learned from our k-12 education has been abandoned. I don’t think Gatto is really “against school”. I think he is simply against dogmatic thought and its propagation in America’s public school systems. But his point was made and it, incidentally, made me very glad indeed to be back in school at all.

Kate S.

Gatto

I loved Gatto's idea, saying that we dont need school to be educated and showed many people from history who were successful without going to school. I completely support that idea, because i do believe a person can be successful and can survive without school. That we can educate ourselves. There so many things that i taught myself that i didn't learn from teachers.

istar Abu

Columbo/Gatto

To begin reading with Columbo, gaining an understanding what thinking critically does consist of, helps me "try" to see the perspectives in which Gatto shared in his article. Columbo provided for me, a better understanding to how critical thinking has different aspects. He provides his basic definition on what critical thinking is and the basis from which he believes it is derived. I must say that reading him first gave me the insight on how to deal with authors like Gatto, with patience and an open mind. Culturally, as Columbo mentions, I would definitely say that my opinions and perspectives on how I see education, in particular, public education, as a necessity and a path, an opinion based on how I was raised and see things. Growing up in an inner city and moving to a rural area, I see the differences in education and how even an individuals attitude towards teaching differs.
I believe my childhood experiences are reasons for my passion in the subject. I think Gatto was bored enough to compose this silly article. While it is his opinion and it seems the article was well written, I feel his personal experiences and crummy career played a role on his biased opinion on what public education is really trying to do. I don't see public education as factories. No one cares, and I will speak for myself, about how he got screwed while he was on leave. He referenced a lot of his work on authors and educators from other universities. I disagree that our system is like Prussia. Once again, I am completely impassive about how many activities or jobs James Bryant Conan had and his negativity in general to education. I just don't like this guy.

Gatto/Freire Reading Response

As I read Gatto and Freire and their opinions on education, I began to re-evaluate my experiences as a student in the public school system. I came to the conclusion that while I have had to develop in a sub-par school in need of renovation and an update to the faculty-student relationships, I have not had the experience that Gatto or Freire predicted. My teachers were, for the most part, willing to teach in a method not unlike the Socratic Method of asking and answering questions. I would often speak during these sessions and our class would not always come to any one conclusion and we would have to compromise on a solution together (unlike Freire's belief that all conclusions to a class lecture and their meanings are determined by the teacher).
I think that this is because Oregon attracts a more dedicated group of teachers from all over the country due to the higher standards that Oregon sets for a teaching degree. Because of their dedication too teaching, they might approach an issue in a variety of ways in order to help the students understand and question the information that the teachers are providing, including the discussion of the material by the students. Because of this, we don't have to worry about the quality of our education in Oregon as much as in other states; we only have to worry about how dedicated we are to leartning.

Ryan C.

Gatto

Kelly Dickens

“He told me that I was never to use that term in his presence again, that if I was bored it was my fault and no one else’s. The obligation to amuse and instruct myself was entirely my own, and people who didn’t know that were childish people, to be avoided if possible.” -Gatto
This spoke to me because it’s the plain and simple truth. People of all ages rely far too much on modern technology to be entertained, instead of being outdoors having adventures and exploring, we sit around watching T.V., playing video games, talking on the phone etc. And, when these things fail us, what do we do? Complain of boredom. I’ve done this many times as I’m sure everybody has. I agree with Gatto when he says we need to learn to manage ourselves and be challenged. There are so many things out there that can help us grow and expand our horizons, but, for whatever reasons, we choose to ignore this or simply never discover it.
One thing I don’t agree with Gatto about is that all public schooling is bad. Without school, how would we have made it to college? People wouldn’t know how to read, write, or do math. And what then? If, by some miracle, someone came up with a better way of getting an education, I’d be all for getting rid of public schooling. But, until then, it’s probably not a good idea to keep children out of school.

Ironic would be the first word that came to mind when reading Colombo’s Critical Thinking, Challenging Cultural Myths. Ironic, because here I was sitting in a a seemingly traditional classroom, being assigned a reading that encouraged me to challenge traditional thinking. I enjoyed the article right away because it opened up with a sentence I immediately could relate too; “beginning college can be a disconcerting experience.” Sure enough, I had some disconcertion going on.

I particularly liked what Colombo had to say about myth and culture. I’ve always viewed culture as something rich and distinctly unique to humanity, but I never thought of it as having negative connotations, as well. Colombo stated that through culture, comes rigid customs that take a true critical thinker to break and question why those customs are the way they are.

It is within our traditional education system that we learn to obey these myths and customs and are rarely challenged to question them. This takes me strait to Gatto. The soul of Gatto’s argument is that our education system is full of flaws. it’s boring, ridged, and and encourages mediocracy. Friere shared similar views and even went as far as to say that oppression in our schools is caused by the love of death and destruction, rather then creation.

The key points of these three articles run parallel. The connections between them are blatant and obvious, and Colombo, Gatto, and Friere share very similar views. As for buffalo gals, however, the connection did not come quickly. To be honest, it didn’t really come at all. Though, I did connect it to our discussion about what separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom. We made assumptions that we are the only species capable of language and deep emotions, but it could be that we’re just looking at it form a different perspective. Just like how gal saw coyote as a person, and horse saw gal as a colt. It all depended on perspective, and our perspective could be completely off. Buffalo gals was humbling in that way, and even though I didn't find a direct way to connect it to the other readings, Buffalo gals did spark a lot of critical thinking

3 readings

In reading Columbo, Friere and Gotto I came to the conclusion that education is the most important thing that you can do for any other human being. I don't want any one to end up like me goin back to school at my age. Going to one dead end job to another not know what I want to be when I grow up. It is embarrassing to know that our country is 15th. in math and science in the world and 11th. in reading. Even though I heard that on the "Steven Colbert" show which is a syterical, comedy news show in gives real news stories with a comedic twist. I dont think any thing is wrong with memorizing facts. I will email my original writing to you which gets to the point better.

Definition of nature:
I wanted to look in the dictionary or on line to give the "official" definition , then mine however dictionary.com was rather lengthy so I choose the ones which most agree with my personal definition so first we'll go with dictionary.com.
1. the material world, esp, asa surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activivtes.
2. The natural world as it iexixts without human benngs. As mountains trees etc.
3. A primitave, wild, condition; an uncultivated state.
4. The original, natural, uncivilized condition of humakind.
Definition of human.
1.or or pertaining to characters of or having the nature of people.
2.Consisting of peopole: the human race.
3.Of or pertaining to the soccial aspect of people: human affairs.
These are the ones from the dictionary which most fit my dedinition. My point and most likiley the point of the instructor is that the 2 words are intertwined and can hardly be descrived or defined as one without defining them together and using "human" in describing "nature" to describe "human"

Reading response by Molly Hilken

“Do we really need school? I don’t mean education, just forced schooling: six classes a day, five days a week, nine months a year, for twelve years. Is this deadly routine really necessary? And if so what for? Don’t hide behind reading, writing, and arithmetic as a rational, because 2 million happy homeschoolers have surely put that banal justification to rest.” –Gatto

I agree with Gatto in the aspect that we need an education and maybe the school system as it is today isn’t quite as necessary as we are raised to believe. I feel as though high school would have been more beneficial to me if I had gotten educated through experience rather then “schooled” by sitting at a desk all day, five days a week. But at the same time reading, writing and basic arithmetic are vital skills that we need to learn somewhere, if not in a structured schooling system then where? While homeschooling, as Gatto mentioned, provides children with an education outside of the typical structured learning setting it does not teach them the valuable social skills that children learn by having social contact on a daily basis in a classroom. These social skills are absolutely necessary for life as adults. While these home schooled children benefit from learning independence and creative thinking , some of them may lack being properly socialized.

Human/Nature RR

Reading Response: Colombo, Freire, and Gatto Down With the Public Education
It's very apparent when reading the articles by Colombo, Freire, and Gatto that they share a very strong opinion on the public education system in America. Colombo, Freire, and Gatto see the public education system as this tyrant that wants to take over the creative individual, abolish all critical thinking from the youth, and create the perfect consumer for America. In many ways I agree with what Colombo, Freire, and Gatto have to say about the public education system, it's taking away the passion and inspiration that is supposed to go with learning, but going as far as to say that the public education system is like “banking” and that our minds are nothing but capsules that are being filled with pointless information that all “average” and “general” people that need to be ruled by society should know seems extreme. We might be forced by law to stay in school for a certain amount of time and be forced to take certain classes in that time period, but many people continue on in that same heartless public education system and take something great away from it. If it wasn't for the public education system we would all be left to find a way to pay for expensive private schooling or be taught by our parents, and in no disrespect, but the times and exceptions of education are changing and many parents nowadays can't keep up with the rigorous learning that we are now entailed to have, just as a basic knowledge. So yes, maybe public education takes things away, but if the student really wants to know and learn they will take it upon themselves to make it happen and learn much more from it then just having it shoved in their “capsule” by some teacher.

Reading Response 1 by: John Wall

Reading Response 1
Throughout my first in FRINQ, we read three assigned readings which for the most part I enjoyed. The readings opened my eyes to some common problems we as students run into today. Colombo talked about the problems with students not being able to think critically and cultural myths. Gato talked about how the problem of boredom in school creates problems and that school doesn’t allow students to explore their interests. While the most recent Freire talked about how the schools sole function of teaching is like a banking account. These all have a common theme of students not being able to reach their full potential in school.
Within the readings Gato and Freire the problem seems to have to be with the teacher and or environment. Due to the practice of how teachers educate students is the idea of banking. As the student sits in class their brain is just to remain an open account while the teacher fills it with information. This is just like a lecture class because if all the students are just listening and not responding they become bored. Both the students and teachers can control this boredom if the teachers would allow the students to question the material and become critical thinkers with Colombo thought students should be able to do.
In conclusion, schools need to force teachers to allow for a more challenging yet open minded environment so that students can become critical thinkers. This would help control the problem of boredom throughout school.

Believing in Education

After reading the Colombo and Gatto articles I felt like a lost cause. What these two authors were saying was that I was a lost cause. Because I was part of the public education system I am now supposedly not capable of thinking critically. I and many others are testaments to the fact that people can go through the public school system and and turn out able beings. It is human nature to continuely try to improve things, such as the public school system. Anything can be improved but I believe the biggest step towards improving our educational system is to actually believe in it. For anything to succeed one must first believe. Honestly believing in something is something that comes natural to every human being but over time we lose sight of that fact. I believe an article that discusses the topic of believing and how powerful it may be would be much more benficial.

Spencer's Response 1

Spencer McGee
Human/Nature- MacCormack
October 7, 2009
Le Guin and Gatto Response
When I started reading Le Guin I couldn’t figure out whether we were talking about humans or animals. Then I thought about Tuesday’s class and how we discussed what are the main differences between human and animals. As I kept this in mind the characters of Buffalo Gals kept switching between each body. I thought of this as trying to keep humans and animals alike as much as possible.
What I figured out was that we do not need structured education to learn. As I read the child in Buffalo Gals matured as a character. In the beginning she was “blind” in one eye and needed aid. The coyote took the child under her wing and taught the child ways while making connections with other people/animals. This is relevant to Gatto’s essay about the education system. He states that education is boring and allowing too much leeway for student’s activities. I believe what Gatto is trying to say is that us, as students, need adventure and challenges instead of sitting in a classroom all day long.
Bringing it back to Le Guin, the child in the story experienced adventure and important life lessons and was not bored with the education that was experienced. If we could some how make the educational system more exciting and “adventurous” it would be more successful and students would be more active in class.

Reading Response

I strongly felt what Gatto was saying about the education system which conforms children into fitting in with the dull society. Forced schooling prepares kids to accept being servants and mere followers as adults who accept how things are no matter how wrong and unfavorable it feels to them. Freire as well takes hits at the current education system which he explains as a “banking” system which makes students into data storing machines instead of data interpreters. He makes the claim that banking system blocks the development of a child’s critical thinking abilities as he is simply expected to absorb whatever information is given to him without questioning the logic.

These articles really made me think deep about what kind of a person I would had turned out to be if I was not a part of the “flawed” education system during my childhood.

I really wonder how different our society would be if our education system was completely different. Its hard for me to even guess personally because the only type of schooling i have been a part of has been "banking". Maybe if kids were taught completely differently they might be different individuals as adults than they are now. Would the intelligence level and productivity of all students automatically rise as adults under the new system? Or would the effects just cancel out since even though the education style is better, kids will still have the equal amount of resources provided to them compared to their classmates as with the "inferior" system and the raised competition level will have overall tougher competitors

Gatto, Colombo, and Paulo Freire

While reading the essays I'd have to say the one I enjoyed and agreed with the most was John Gatto, he was very relate able and all of his points, from my experience, were spot on. He explains that both the teachers and the students are at fault, he mentions that both the "students and teachers as virtual factories of childishness". To me this statement is very significant, the children are bored and the teachers typically aren't interested in what they are talking about and as a result the children don't learn and the the teacher gets frustrated, which is childish and makes it a bad learning experience. Being bored in school or with life breeds laziness which effects how well the student will do when he "gets out in the real world" as they say. He also touches on the fact that teachers hands are tied, the school board and other forces make it hard for them to teach in a style more engaging for the teacher and the student. Paulo Freire's essay was very strong and analytical, almost as if he was speaking about his topic from a distance and in metaphors. One of his comments I liked was the students "tend simply to adapt to the world as it is and to the fragmented view of reality deposited in them". I strongly agree with this, in school you are separated from the world and how it works; it's like the military, the military is a way of life and then there is the civilian life. Students are not exposed to the hurdles of life, they are not even prepared for it; what a company wants, how to apply for a job, etc..All in all I think that Colombo, Gatto, and Freire all made very good points but I think Gatto's was the most agreeable for me.

Colombo and Gatto

I thought that the Colombo and Gatto reading were similar based on the theory of thinking critically and managing ourselves. The idea of thinking critically spoke out to me because it made me step back and take a look at how I learn. I realized I was one of the students that just memorized the work to pass the test, and by the time the weekend came I'd forget what I learned. But, with the skill of questioning and applying what you learn to real situations, your overall knowledge expands and allows you to maintain what you learned. Opening our minds and looking past "obvious meanings" creates so much more for us to understand and think about, also allowing us to learn to accept others.

I felt that the differences between the two articles were that the Colombo reading seemed to focus on how cultural myths hold power on us, and how they hold us back from opening our minds. And the Gatto reading focused on the schools, and how they hold us back. I think I enjoyed the Colombo reading a bit more just because the Gatto reading seemed preferential to the idea of schools being meant for "conformity" and "to reduce individuals to the same safe level". He didn't really give another view in the article. Also I felt like the Colombo reading was a bit more encouraging in making us become critical thinkers, whereas the Gatto reading made me feel like we've been stuck in this prison-like system called school. 

Overall, I feel like a got quite a bit out of both readings. The Gatto reading allowed me to see that being bored is all based on me. I need to not waste time, but really focus and make an effort to learn. The Colombo reading made me think about opening my mind wider, and looking at different views instead of just the ones I grew up to believe.

Olivia F.